Technology Android

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
I like stock Android, but I also like Samsung's little additions - actually on a phone I find it more useful with them. I disabled bloatware and nothing bothers me. I don't see how it's bad - it performs as good as on stock and I don't have to install lots of apps to do things I can just enable in settings. Also, battery lasts longer than on Stock according to tests. Means Samsung are better at optimizing their Kernels. Contextual menus are also more functional than on stock.
Perfect Android to me would be stock with more customization options out of the box. I'm not a fan of having 20 apps just to do things that should be there in the first place. Some of them don't work well and drain battery too.

New maps are not exclusive to Android 4.3 though, they are an independent app. Low Power Bluetooth is one of those "shitty tweaks" that is there in Samsung's ROMs, that wasn't there in stock Android until 4.3 ;)

I am aware of that. Hence why fitbit was only supported on the S3, S4 and Note II. But now it's here to all, so that is enough of an upgrade for me.

Plus... I kept my S3 stock for a while. I found stock was better than a custom ROM for battery. But, I would hope so. If Samsung's R&D department is writing inferior software to a 15 year old boy, something is wrong.

Each to their own. Phones are relatively cheap at sub £500. I could have anyone I wanted. But I picked the Nexus 4 as that suits me best. Maybe I'll pick a new one later this year, but there isn't another phone I want.

And a low blow as I leave. All the iphone Chavs are now rocking S4s. :)
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
And a low blow as I leave. All the iphone Chavs are now rocking S4s. :)

Hahah, damn :( I like the S4, it's a very good phone. BUT, I feel like I kinda regret the money I paid for it sometimes. It's snappy and does everything well, but a phone that costs half as much would allow me to do most of the same stuff. For example Moto X might have lower specs but the real world difference will probably be small and the price is half of the S4's price. That's why I'm not excluding the possibility of selling it in order to get something else when some new cool phone comes out in the future.
It's more like appreciation than blind love with the S4.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
There will be a time when the S4 would probably be able to play games or run certain apps, but the Moto X may not. The same may apply to updates to new firmware, where Samsung would probably get an update much later into it's life than the X would.

And this would be relevant to you because you like to keep your phones for a long time.


I believe 4.3 now has individual app permissions. I don't know if it's been there on 4.2.x or something, but I just saw a headline saying 4.3 had it as a new feature. That's not too big for me, but I'd need to look at it for a bit and see.

Low power bluetooth would be big for me because when I am home, my Bimmer does the hands free thing through Bluetooth. Whereas my dad and sister have iPhones and there's Bluetooth for that but also the iPhone adapter as well which would charge the phone while driving and do the same thing as Bluetooth.

But Bluetooth used to suck battery for me. During my car ride, my S3 would lose about 10% battery in the 30-45 minute drive to work in the morning. I had to start carrying the mobile charger for that thing just because of Bluetooth. So hopefully this fixes that issue.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
So I just held the N7 after asking a guy in my class to see it. The screen and form factor seems just fine. It will take a tiny bit of getting used to, from my 9-10" TP (dunno what it actually was...maybe 9.8"?) but I think I can handle the decrease in size.

I was thinking about the OS itself and thought about how much Android has changed in every major update. Major ones, not 4.2.2-4.3. It's changed a fuck ton more than iOS, which still looks the same. That might get to me, too. You can easily fool me and keep me hooked by just changing the color scheme and and orientation of buttons and I'll still think it's brand fucking new.

But iOS is really just....more of the same. One major change in 7 iterations of the OS. I can see that becoming a problem.

I'll give the slight edge to the 7.2 now. I'll wait for the reviews to come in from reputable reviewers, like Tom's or Anand.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Yeah, Anand had the best and most in-depth review of the first Nexus 7, which is why I started reading Anandtech in the first place. Basically tested and described each component and feature. It was probably the best review they did but you could tell they were hooked. At that point the tablet was pretty groundbreaking.

The 7.2 is really a huge upgrade performance-wise though. It's also lighter, slimmer and the side bezels are slightly thinner.

On a side note the new Google maps are slower than the previous ones. I mean, it works super smooth on my S4 but is choppier on the Tegra 3 oO That said, it's almost unusable on my old Xperia Arc while the previous Maps worked smooth even on that single core CPU. I guess it's kinda not how it should be. Programmers are getting lazy because hardware is getting faster, but I didn't expect that from Google.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Well, at the end of the N7 review, they really didn't give a final verdict on which they preferred. Or maybe it was the Mini review. Can't remember, but in both reviews they compared the two to each other. It came down to OS preference and what "ecosystem" you were a part of.

For me, I'm heavy into both. I run OSX on my laptop and iOS on my iPod Touch, both of which I use daily. Then I have an Android phone which I use daily as well, on the island or back at home. So that's what's making this decision rather difficult. When I had my TouchPad I had Android on that as well, so it was almost 50/50.

My Genius friend told me he'd give me his 15% employee discount. That changes things a little bit as the Mini becomes a little more affordable. But it just depends on whether my S3 can cover my Android needs fully (which it has so far, save for the Zinio app which my tablet handled with a bigger screen) and therefore I can use my iOS for everything else. Zinio is also on iOS, so that point is kind of moot as well.

Any word on if/when Office comes to iOS and Android? It would be easier to pirate for Android, but right now, QuickOffice was what I used for Android. For iOS, I believe iWork is set to become free and that was OK for me to use when I tried it out on OSX.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
No idea about MS Office.

I don't trust the Verge. They're not a tech site to me. They're more like an average American consumer complaining about lack of LTE in a 299$ phone. However if even they have good things to say then the new N7 really must be a great tablet.

edit: I took time to read the review and I remembered why I thought the Verge was a bunch of hardcore newbs. "Oh God, Asus made the N7 fast and then turn slow. I overloaded it with rogue apps and my N7 is laggy now, so this new Nexus 7 will probably be laggy after a year too, for reasons I can't explain, but it's totally going to happen, so be prepared to upgrade every year".
The only thing he basically points out is that he loves the Nexus 7. Everyones loves Nexus 7s, duh.

edit: another review and Geekbench performance tests (measures overall system performance):
http://www.ubergizmo.com/2013/07/nexus-7-2-review/


There's also a cool iPad mini (and apparent Mini 2) comparison that was concluded like this:

 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Yeah, you're right. I read it after I posted it on here and then left the house, but it seriously sounded like the Nexus was responsible for fist-fucking his mother to death and he was grasping at straws to make it look bad.

I just posted the review because it's the first one I've seen that wasn't some butt-fuck site that had no reputation. Guess I'll be waiting on that Anandtech.

Those benchmarks are hilarious. But.... the iPad 4 is pretty old so we'll wait for the update to see where it lands on that benchmark. I think it'll at least be on-par with the N7.2, which is bad for a bigger tablet that is supposed to be more powerful. But we'll see.

I just have this feeling that despite having all this power, Android devices, phones and tablets alike, really don't blow the iOS devices that are comparable out of the water. Could be just me, but I think I've even read somewhere that Android devices need that big boost in power because they're running emulators? Or some shit like that. That iOS ran natively while Android did not. If not "emulators" then maybe it was like a virtual machine or something. And that those required some extra juice which was why Apple was in no rush to flex their muscle in the numbers war because their devices ran fine without it.

Anyway, this new N7 screen, is it good to read on or will it be a problem? I think the review said that magazines from the Play Store ran fine and were vivid and all that. Do you think that would be any different on an app like Zinio, which is what I use for magazines? Meaning, is the app optimized to run at that high of a resolution without artifacts and all that other visual disturbance lingo?

I need it for documents and magazines, as I've stated a million times in here. Will a Retina display of a Mini provide me with a better viewing experience than the N7.2? Or will it not really be noticeable?
 

Pittsey

Knock, Knock...
Staff member
Why do you want to run Office on it. I can't see why any serious person in business or education would do their essays or business plans on a tablet...! Am I one of those old people resistant to technology, but can't yet see it?

I complete all my work on my laptop and if I want to review or make minor changes... I use Google Drive, formally Documents.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I just have this feeling that despite having all this power, Android devices, phones and tablets alike, really don't blow the iOS devices that are comparable out of the water. Could be just me, but I think I've even read somewhere that Android devices need that big boost in power because they're running emulators? Or some shit like that. That iOS ran natively while Android did not. If not "emulators" then maybe it was like a virtual machine or something. And that those required some extra juice which was why Apple was in no rush to flex their muscle in the numbers war because their devices ran fine without it.
Well, that's a rumor that comes from people who have no idea how it really works. Android runs on Java, which works in a slightly different way because normally it runs on Java virtual machines. On Android, however, there's Dalvik. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalvik_(software)
To explain it in the most simple terms since Android 2.2 it executes Java code almost like it's native code.

To explain the difference better:
- A normal Java virtual machine takes whole Java code and compiles the whole thing (kinda like loading to translate the code into CPU instructions) and then launches that whole thing. That's how normal Java applications work.
- in iOS things are written in objective C. Things are pre-compiled so the OS already gets CPU instructions with no need to translate. They're taking advantage of the fact that there are only a few devices to support running iOS and you can make just a few pre-compiled versions of an app/program and use one of them depending on the device.
- in Android, Dalvik does just-in time execution. Which means it takes a part of Java code that is needed at the moment and compiles and runs it in real time. It's a little slower than running "native"/pre-compiled CPU instructions like iOS does (because they don't need the compiling part), but it's not significantly slower.
As an example Dalvik does its job during app loadings. And they're not really long on Android.

In even simpler terms, as a result, the fact that Android works through Dalvik doesn't really matter much for performance. It would matter mostly for app launch times which is when Android "translates" code into instuctions, while iOS gets instructions instead of code to begin with so it doesn't have to do part of work Android has to do. After the app is launched the code is already "translated" and Android and iOS are on equal terms. It doesn't matter in things which Android is notorious for, such as scrolling performance. That is the consequence of early software design decision - how Android uses the power it gets from hardware. Despite performing much better, scrolling might be a little choppier because it's not something that gets placed above everything else and the UI layer doesn't get exclusive use of resources when the user places his finger on the screen like it does in iOS or WP.

Anyway, this new N7 screen, is it good to read on or will it be a problem? I think the review said that magazines from the Play Store ran fine and were vivid and all that. Do you think that would be any different on an app like Zinio, which is what I use for magazines? Meaning, is the app optimized to run at that high of a resolution without artifacts and all that other visual disturbance lingo?

I need it for documents and magazines, as I've stated a million times in here. Will a Retina display of a Mini provide me with a better viewing experience than the N7.2? Or will it not really be noticeable?
Apparently the screen is great. They say it's in between the Ipad 4 with Retina and Nexus 10 (which is the best tablet screen). My bet is, 7.2's screen is going to be better than Mini 2' even if it comes with Ipad 4-like Retina, which isn't likely to happen.
7.2's and Mini 2's pixel densities would be similar, granted Apple goes for the same resolution their big tablet uses, which I kinda doubt they'd do - it'd make Mini superior to a normal Ipad because the same resolution on a smaller screen means higher pixel density than on a flagship Ipad, which wouldn't be acceptable to Apple. They'd see it as cannibalizing their flagship Ipad.
Also, panel quality on full sized Ipads is better than on Mini and still the screen on 7.2 is said to be better than on full sized Ipads.

If it comes to content I can tell you how 1080p works on my S4 - most things take perfect advantage of it, documents are perfect. But there are apps that aren't yet optimized for HD, in which case their resolution is lower and you get less detail there or UI elements are smaller.
However I bet web magazines should take full advantage of 1080P. If there are still reader apps that don't take advantage of full hd, soon they will. The downside of such huge resolution is that you often can't zoom in as much on pictures.

Why do you want to run Office on it. I can't see why any serious person in business or education would do their essays or business plans on a tablet...! Am I one of those old people resistant to technology, but can't yet see it?

I complete all my work on my laptop and if I want to review or make minor changes... I use Google Drive, formally Documents.

A friend of mine tends to write articles using a Windows tablet. Crazy to me. He has a keyboard hooked up to his tablet though, but sometimes he writes without it! I once made a presentation on my tablet using Google Docs. That's one situation where a full-fledged MS Office would be more useful. But I wouldn't pay for it on Android considering that there are free tools that are almost as useful.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Surprisingly good news about 7.2:

http://www.androidauthority.com/nexus-7-2013-s-4-pro-snapdragon-600-249594/
http://blog.gsmarena.com/ifixit-tak...it-a-good-score-chromecast-also-disassembled/

The processor in the 7.2 consists of.. Krait 300 cores. It's not the same chip as in the N4. It means it's basically Snapdragon 600, but underclocked to 1,5ghz. It's the same processor that powers the S4, HTC One etc, just clocked at 1,5ghz instead of 1,9 or 1,7. Crazy.
That explains huge performance gains in single threaded benchmarks and browser benchmarks.


The motherboard has a Qualcomm Snapdragon S4 APQ8064-1AA chipset, which as it turns out is a downclocked Snapdragon 600 chipset – four Krait 300 cores (rather than Krait 200) at 1.5Ghz and Adreno 320.
What it also means is, if you're rooted you can easily overclock it to at least 1,9ghz and have Galaxy S4 performance.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Why do you want to run Office on it. I can't see why any serious person in business or education would do their essays or business plans on a tablet...! Am I one of those old people resistant to technology, but can't yet see it?

I complete all my work on my laptop and if I want to review or make minor changes... I use Google Drive, formally Documents.


I wouldn't be completing any projects on it. I would simply be viewing documents and PowerPoints on it. I'm curious to at least try it out and see if it views better than QuickOffice or any other Office client that's out there for mobile. I may edit a document, like add minor notes or if I have a stylus just write it in, but I wouldn't be creating PowerPoints or writing reports on it. I may dictate a document in Word, but even then my MBP would be better for that.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
Hmmm. So the review from Anandtech was longer than I thought it would be, and it's still considered a "mini-review" as Anand is due to do a full write up soon.

A lot of performance benchmarks, a lot of which I have no idea what the fuck they're useful for. There was at least 20-30 in one of the sections. I think it was the "performance and write speed" section. Not gonna analayze that.

After reading the review, it seems like a solid purchase, which was never a doubt in my mind to begin with. The stronger the case for the 7.2 becomes, the more I feel I should wait until the Mini 2 is announced and tested and all. It isn't hard to see I really want the Mini successor and that I'm predisposed to it. Part of it is because of it being an Apple product; I still have a reason in that the form factor is better for me, even though both have great feels to them. It feels like a more solid product too. The OS will be the drawback for me as I do prefer Androids widgets, app drawer, notifications, etc.

I'll wait for October or so for the Mini 2 to be announced/released and if nothing is out by then, I'm getting the 7.2. The performance numbers for the 7.2 that I've seen are just nuts. Your comment on it being like the Snapdragon 600 gives me some ease of mind because I doubt the Mini will come with something anywhere near the power of that. OCing the N7 will be a blast too. You think they will come with a kernel that will take it beyond the 1.5Ghz? Like 1.9 or 2.0?

Also, I didn't quite think the wireless charging thing through. I was thinking it was some next-level stuff where the outlet plug was sending shit wirelessly to charge the 7.2 from afar. lol, I dunno, I feel like a retard, I don't even know if that's physically possible right now. But it turns out I needed to have purchased a charging mat, like Energizer's dual position mat which is what Anandtech used. I don't want to spend $70 on a device my $229 device can only use. I'd have to buy a special back for my S3 to get that on wireless charging too. While it's a great feature, I think it's got some time before it really becomes a selling point. I don't know anyone that has the wireless chargers for their devices.
 

Casey

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I'm flying to LA next week with the band. Gonna stick my 1st gen N7 on eBay, and buy the new one whilst there. With the exchange rate, I won't have to pay much more. I'm fairly sure I can get at least £110 for the 1st gen N7, which works out to roughly $170. So that's $60 difference for the new model, which is £39, which is nothing to me to get a brand new tablet. It seems like the N7 has held it's value well. You wouldn't get anything near that for a 7" Galaxy Tab 2 which came out at roughly the same time.

Plus I'll have it before it even launches here. I think it's supposed to land here at the end of Aug.

Thinking of picking up a Chromecast too.
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
The Anandtech review mentioned a very interesting and important thing about 4.3, that is the first thing why I think the update might be worth it. It comes with TRIM support. It'll be extremely useful for the first gen Nexus 7. It's kinda a complicated thing but basically it keeps SSD drives from becoming unusable in PCs.
Mobile devices usually become slower with time because the more the storage is used, the slower it gets as theoretically empty areas are left with "residue" pieces of trash data - that's because of how solid state memory works. TRIM basically repairs that. It de-trashes the storage when the device is idle to make it perform like new again.
I'm really surprised they didn't mention that, as it's the only thing that I consider really important in 4.3. If what Anand said is true, all heavily used Nexus devices should perform much better after the 4.3 update despite not introducing any other performance tweaks.

A lot of performance benchmarks, a lot of which I have no idea what the fuck they're useful for. There was at least 20-30 in one of the sections. I think it was the "performance and write speed" section. Not gonna analayze that.
Yeah I love their benchmarks though. They literally break down everything there.

It isn't hard to see I really want the Mini successor and that I'm predisposed to it.
Yeah I guess so. Because now everything is pointing out that the new Nexus 7 is a perfect Android tablet. I'm considering getting one myself after all, despite still loving the first gen one.

Your comment on it being like the Snapdragon 600 gives me some ease of mind because I doubt the Mini will come with something anywhere near the power of that. OCing the N7 will be a blast too. You think they will come with a kernel that will take it beyond the 1.5Ghz? Like 1.9 or 2.0?
Yeah, exactly. There are surely going to be unofficial ROMs with Kernels OCing it by quite a fair bit. However even at 1,5ghz that chip is very fast so you might as well never need it at all as likely you won't feel much of a difference.

If it comes to the wireless charging thing the charging pad is cool as you can just place it next to your bed and charge the phone by putting it there. Same with tablet. No need to plug in a usb cable. To me that super minor convenience is not worth the money though. Especially since charging that way is slower.
 

dilla

Trumpfan17 aka Coonie aka Dilla aka Tennis Dog
I think the Anand review said that you take a hit of about 1 watt when charging wirelessly. It hasn't quite been put into perspective for me how much that really is in the long run, but it does say that the wireless pad is about 5 watts an hour, and the wired charging is 6.x. So it's less than two watts, closer to one.

I don't think I'll be using my 7.2 so much that I'd need to charge it daily. I've made do with two chargers that have all been interchangeable for my TouchPad, S3, and BlackBerry here on the island. Because they all drain at a different rate and are used differently, I can charge one while I sleep and then charge the other at home while i am at school and come home and have everything back at 100% after charging an hour once I'm home. Again, I don't need to do that, but I could.

So for me to get this wireless charging pad, I'd ask my parents if they wanted one, but my dad and sis have the 4S and my mom the GalNex. All four of us would need to either get a case that supported this or completely change out the backs of our phones to accommodate wireless charging. If my parents are 1. receptive to this technology and 2. willing to pay ~$100 for a three device charger, it's something that I would definitely be excited for. Otherwise, for me, I don't need two devices charged at once when I'm back in the States. It would just be my S3 and my 7.2/Mini.

Are there any comparisons of the external speakers of the Mini? How are they? I know the 7.2 improved the sound but how does it compare to the current Mini?
 

masta247

Well-Known Member
Staff member
^ Dunno, I don't care much about the speaker quality. They said it's hard to get much worse than the speakers on the first gen N7, but they're ok to me. Voice clarity is good enough and that's what matters to me. To me tablet speakers are all on similar level - I just don't expect much from them and I wouldn't listen to music on any of them.

The great thing is 7.2 comes with stereo speakers though, and Android 4.3 comes with some sound enhancements for the speakers, including neatly simulated surround sound for stereo speakers (why didn't they mention all those actually useful things during the announcement?).
 

THEV1LL4N

Well-Known Member
The Anandtech review mentioned a very interesting and important thing about 4.3, that is the first thing why I think the update might be worth it. It comes with TRIM support. It'll be extremely useful for the first gen Nexus 7. It's kinda a complicated thing but basically it keeps SSD drives from becoming unusable in PCs.
Mobile devices usually become slower with time because the more the storage is used, the slower it gets as theoretically empty areas are left with "residue" pieces of trash data - that's because of how solid state memory works. TRIM basically repairs that. It de-trashes the storage when the device is idle to make it perform like new again.
I'm really surprised they didn't mention that, as it's the only thing that I consider really important in 4.3. If what Anand said is true, all heavily used Nexus devices should perform much better after the 4.3 update despite not introducing any other performance tweaks.

I hope so because the Nexus 7 seems to get really slow when the memory is used up (even when things are deleted it's still slow). I updated to 4.3 and saw a jump in 'smoothness' - but I don't know whether that is down to losing root access. It could be that the device is performing more smoothly because my SetCPU profiles currently do not have superuser permissions to underclock the CPU (yes, I underclock to prolong battery life).

When I say it gets slow - I'm referring to other people complaining about it. Those people are on stock/no root/factory clock speed.
 

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